Posts by Cold Steel

37

JW Stand On Concealed Carry

by Cold Steel in

if a jw wanted to get a concealed carry permit, would the society have any moral or ethical problems with it?

in other words, if one of your elders noticed you were carrying concealed, would they be apt to just ignore it or would they counsel you on it?

.

Cold Steel

Got it. Do you think more JWs have guns than is generally thought? There sure seems to be lots of them here.

37

JW Stand On Concealed Carry

by Cold Steel in

if a jw wanted to get a concealed carry permit, would the society have any moral or ethical problems with it?

in other words, if one of your elders noticed you were carrying concealed, would they be apt to just ignore it or would they counsel you on it?

.

Cold Steel

Fisherman: God’s people have ‘beaten their swords into plowshares’ and do not buy guns to protect themselves from robbery or assault.—Micah 4:3.

The reference to beating swords into plowshares refers to life on Earth during the Millennium, and that because man will no longer need them. Also, those who live by the sword are those who settle their disputes with weapons. Jesus said that to Peter because he knew he was going to trial and that his time had come. God had not removed the bitter cup and it was Jesus' destiny to die. But Jesus also warned his disciples that the time would come when those who had not a sword would need to sell their cloaks to buy one. Scripture should not be twisted to say things it doesn't say, and in the Old Testament Yahweh spelled out to Moses when personal defense was justified. That, and capital punishment (Gen. 6:9) were never withdrawn by Christ.

Like I said, it's a God-given right.

37

JW Stand On Concealed Carry

by Cold Steel in

if a jw wanted to get a concealed carry permit, would the society have any moral or ethical problems with it?

in other words, if one of your elders noticed you were carrying concealed, would they be apt to just ignore it or would they counsel you on it?

.

Cold Steel

Thanks for your responses. Based on the Bible I don't see any problem with Christians defending themselves. I particularly have no respect for a man who can't, or won't, defend his family. For a man to sit by helplessly while someone raped his wife, to me, would be a source of great shame, not honor.

There was a case where a woman confronted a male intruder. Armed with a revolver, she couldn't bring herself to shoot the man who was grinning and moving towards her. Then her six-year old son entered the room. The man, still grinning, then turned towards the boy and moved towards him. But then the woman acted, emptying the gun into his chest and stomach, killing him. What woman wouldn't have? And if push came to shove, what man wouldn't do the same to save his wife or kids? (If not himself?)

Personal protection,to me, is a right bestowed on us by the Creator. In fact, man is the only one of God's creations to come into the world with no teeth, claws or significant muscle density. We need clothing, protection for our feet and weapons for defense because we were born with none of these things.

I suppose a JW could keep a weapon without telling anyone. But what is meant by "privileges"? Does it mean you can't go door to door and peach? And if someone used a weapon to defend one's wife or kids, or even himself, would he be disciplined?

And how about members of the GB? Don't they use security at Bethel or sometimes travel with security?

37

JW Stand On Concealed Carry

by Cold Steel in

if a jw wanted to get a concealed carry permit, would the society have any moral or ethical problems with it?

in other words, if one of your elders noticed you were carrying concealed, would they be apt to just ignore it or would they counsel you on it?

.

Cold Steel

How is one "counseled" in these matters? One wonders what would happen if an armed Muslim terrorist forces his way into a Kingdom Hall. A brother pulls a 9mm pistol and drops the guy in the lobby. No casualties except the gunman, who is dead. Would the brother be hailed as a hero or be condemned because he had a gun and carried it to the Kingdom Hall?

Here's another scenario. Joe just got his concealed weapons permit and is cleaning his new pistol in his basement. An elder drops by unannounced and is led downstairs by Helen, Joe's wife. "Here he is, Frank," she says, "and let me know if I can get you anything!"

"Hey, Joe, what are you up to?" Frank asks.

"Oh, this is my new pistol. Just got my concealed weapons permit and took a shooting course. I thought I should clean it before loading and carrying it."

"Ah," says Frank. "So when did you decide to do this? Did Helen approve?"

"Oh, yeah," he says. "She wasn't crazy about the expenditure, but my dad gave it to me as a gift. He says with crime being what it is, I ought to have some means of self defense. So," he added, "I decided that I probably should take a course and one thing led to another and I decided to get a carry permit."

I realize not all elders are going to give the same advice, but is this something Frank is likely to butt into? Also, is he likely to keep this to himself or will he be discreet? And what about action? Is Joe likely to lose his privileges or will he be just be counseled? Or will he be left alone?

37

JW Stand On Concealed Carry

by Cold Steel in

if a jw wanted to get a concealed carry permit, would the society have any moral or ethical problems with it?

in other words, if one of your elders noticed you were carrying concealed, would they be apt to just ignore it or would they counsel you on it?

.

Cold Steel

If a JW wanted to get a concealed carry permit, would the Society have any moral or ethical problems with it? In other words, if one of your elders noticed you were carrying concealed, would they be apt to just ignore it or would they counsel you on it?

2

Heavenly v. Earthly Class

by Cold Steel in

reading another topic here on the anointed class of believers, i was wondering if anyone could point me towards a good article that might explain this more at length?

from what i've been able to ascertain, gaining the heavenly class status has sizable benefits over being an earthly class peon, right?

further, the john-class (anointed) at one time was considered part and parcel of the faithful and discreet slave (now reserved for the governing body-class).

Cold Steel

Wow...it's amazing someone can get all that out of the Bible! It takes quite an imagination. As far as I know, the JWs are the only ones that have two classes of salvation. The Greek Orthodox believe that the fall of man happened because otherwise man could not have realized his heavenly potential. Thus, Adam fell so man could die, and Jesus came so that man could be redeemed to his full potential. That is actually biblical, but not the dual classes the WTBTS teach.

2

Heavenly v. Earthly Class

by Cold Steel in

reading another topic here on the anointed class of believers, i was wondering if anyone could point me towards a good article that might explain this more at length?

from what i've been able to ascertain, gaining the heavenly class status has sizable benefits over being an earthly class peon, right?

further, the john-class (anointed) at one time was considered part and parcel of the faithful and discreet slave (now reserved for the governing body-class).

Cold Steel

Reading another topic here on the anointed class of believers, I was wondering if anyone could point me towards a good article that might explain this more at length? From what I've been able to ascertain, gaining the heavenly class status has sizable benefits over being an earthly class peon, right? Further, the John-class (anointed) at one time was considered part and parcel of the faithful and discreet slave (now reserved for the Governing Body-class).

Now are all members of the GB part of the anointed? They must be somehow superior because they have consolidated power and manage to retain their jobs at Bethel while others tend to be expendable. But when all is said and done and the resurrection dawns, the heavenly class manages to live in the presence of God while everyone else inherits the earth. So after that, what then? What do the heavenly John-class people do that the angels can't do? Do they rule those on Earth? And if so, why would they need ruling?

These anointed are the ones who partake of the emblems while alive, but they don't enjoy any other status of their election in mortality. In fact, some claimants are ridiculed when they do partake. But does that status necessarily have anything to do with personal righteousness? When, during someone's life, are they anointed? At birth? Can't some people be rough around the edges and still be of the heavenly class? John the Baptist was as great as any prophet ever, but whoever's least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he, right? This means (or used to mean) that John the Baptist was not of the heavenly class. But his greatness could nevertheless not be questioned. Is that correct?

Finally, is there any penalty for partaking of the emblems wrongly, or mistakenly? And are any people turned away when they attempt to partake?

http://youtube/skppA3KzWbk

12

The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures argues for more than one GOD

by smiddy in

gen.1:26 "and god went on to say "let us make man in our image according to our likeness.....etc,etc,.. the key words here are "us" and " our" ,he is including other life forms just like him in using plurals.. he did not say " i" will make man in "my" image ,using the singular vernacular.

the same is also noted in gen 3:22 "and jehovah god went on to say " here the man has become like one of " us".

again he is using the plural and not the singlar language clearly showing their were other life forms on an equal footing to him.. also satan via the serpent also knew the difference between good and bad before he tempted eve , showing he was on a par with jehovah god in knowing that fact along with the other gods in heaven.. another scripture that comes to mind is 1 cor.8:5 "........just as their are many gods and many lords,,,".

Cold Steel

The Bible does not state that God was ever alone. Instead, Moses refers to God as a plurality.

When we say that husband and wife are ONE, we don't mean that they are two manifestations of the same person. They become a single COUPLE. In the same way, GOD (Elohim) is the plural form of God and can be made up of multiple entities. Just as COUPLE signifies a plurality of elements (two), but, too, a oneness. Thus, "Let US make MAN in OUR image, after OUR likeness" or "MAN has become as one of US. There is nothing monotheistic about "WE."

But is the oneness of a couple the same as the oneness of God?

Absolutely, and the scriptures bear that out.

Remember when Jesus prayed to the Father (an act requiring two beings) concerning the TWELVE? He asked, “...that THEY may be ONE,” and here's the kicker, “even as WE are ONE.” In the SAME WAY that GOD is ONE, Jesus was asking that the TWELVE be ONE, which is the same way a COUPLE is ONE.

The scripture also declares that God made MAN in his image, MALE and FEMALE. It could be argued that there's a female element to God. After all, why does God need arms and legs, feet, nose, hands, eyes and so forth? And Jesus is said to be in the “express image” of the Father, so one cannot successfully argue that this is some figurative image. We need our bodies to function in a terrestrial environment; to breath, to propel ourselves from one place to another, to eat and to speak. And when we're resurrected, we come forth with physical bodies of flesh and bone (which is distinctly different than the corruptible “flesh and blood.”) Jesus was put to death and his flesh and blood body died. But he came forth from the tomb with an incorruptible body of flesh and bones.

But why would the Father have a body that looks like ours (or vice versa)? And why does Jesus have a resurrected physical body, while his Father allegedly has a body of spirit? (The scripture that states that “God is a spirit” is one of the suspect passages only found in later manuscripts, but I think the NWT keeps it, while leaving out most other suspect passages.

29

Lying In Wait At a Bed & Breakfast

by Cold Steel in

a few years ago while traveling in the northeast, my wife and i stopped in new haven, connecticut, at a b&b we'd reserved for the night.

no sooner had we unpacked and moved into the living room for tea and treats, our hosts began to talk about religion, and we learned they were jehovah's witnesses.

i didn't mind so much, but my wife was outraged that our hosts would use their place of business as a launching point to do missionary work.

Cold Steel

I have no problem reasoning with JWs and boxing them, but my wife rightfully thought it was unprofessional to do what they did and the last thing she wanted was for me to debate them on any level. (At times like that I would have loved to have been able to do a Christopher Walken imitation!) Heh!

29

Lying In Wait At a Bed & Breakfast

by Cold Steel in

a few years ago while traveling in the northeast, my wife and i stopped in new haven, connecticut, at a b&b we'd reserved for the night.

no sooner had we unpacked and moved into the living room for tea and treats, our hosts began to talk about religion, and we learned they were jehovah's witnesses.

i didn't mind so much, but my wife was outraged that our hosts would use their place of business as a launching point to do missionary work.

Cold Steel

Yep...we gave it a good review, but warned people to beware the preaching. It was otherwise a decent place. My mistake was in talking to them in the first place, while trying to be polite. That, alas, only encourages them!